http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Armageddon/David-Drake/e/9780671878764

There's an "ISBN-13" there. Hope that helps.

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# ISBN: 067187876X
# ISBN-13: 9780671878764

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And it worked, too. Google's form ate that ISBN without a blink.

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Glad to help.

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THANK YOU! I didn't think of checking B&N because I figured they'd only have current releases!

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Also, this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASIN

It's an Amazon internal number. Bah.

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In a just universe, we would be able to bill Google for every hour we've wasted dealing with this crap.

I tried to claim one of my stories using their "Unknown" option since I don't have page numbers in front of me. It spits back an error message. I guess they're just taunting us with that option, and you're not supposed to actually use it.

Urge to strangle...rising....

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March on their corporate headquarters? Petition?

Nothing media based would work--the anti-copyright crowd have everyone who isn't in the barrel convinced that the barrel is a gold-plated, mink-lined luxury condo.

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If you leave the page number field blank, it usually eats your data anyway--and down the line when you're "managing" your entries, it will have forgotten the page numbers anyway.

I had just entered the story in Alternate Generals II and the one in Armageddon when I went to the "manage" screen, and the page numbers weren't there. That I know I entered. And it's been that way for the rest. There were only a few I didn't have page numbers for.

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Makes me want to go tilting at Google's windmills....

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I don't want to tilt at them. I want to drop the publicity equivalent of high-explosives on them. Barrages of artillery from afar kind of publicity.

I lack the publicity firepower.

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for the most part I like google and believe they have good intentions. I'm getting the impression that they did not think through the impact of their approach on all existing copyright holders and could stand to be better informed. Perhaps they could use a nicely written complaint... after poking around a bit... I'm aiming to use Contact Us off the books.google.com

http://books.google.com/support/bin/request.py?hl=en-us

thought I'd share in case anyone else was similarly inclined.

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Thanks. Well, it's been obvious from day one that they didn't think through their position with respect to copyright and copyright holders...I'm not sure being better informed than having people suing you for copyright violation will help, but I'll try. AFTER I finish claiming my works using their forms, because there's a hard deadline for that.

Otherwise they assume I've agreed to let them do whatever they want.

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response from books-support@google.com

8<-----
You're welcome to reply to this email with any
additional feedback you have. I will be sure to surface it. As this is
still a young program, comments and suggestions from users and partners
are very helpful.

Please note that because your feedback is related to the Google Books
settlement agreement, which is awaiting Court approval, we're limited in
our ability to discuss it with you. However, you are encouraged to contact
the Settlement Administrator or Class Counsel, whose contact information
is on the settlement website
(http://books.google.com/booksrightsholders/), for further assistance. Of
course, if you have questions about the Google Books Partner Program,
please don't hesitate to let me know.

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This is just sick. If Google want to publish still copyrighted material it should be their ¤%&¤% duty to find the author and ask for their permission.

Except, of course, the whole situation is ludicrous. Why should any author want to give away their work, getting nothing in return?

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Well...I've given things away, and I've allowed the use of things for specific purposes without payment (e.g. a story to be reprinted in a limited-circulation newsletter.) Sometimes you just do things like that. I wasn't ever paid for the plays I wrote for a community group, either.

But it was my choice. Not someone else's choice.

But yeah, Google should do their due diligence and ask writers for permission.

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Stealing Connery's LJ...

This is probably something I could do because I have fewer editions of this and that than you do, but I didn't mess with ISBNs at all. I put in my name and the book title, and Google brought up all the editions; I checked 'em as claimed.

Just in case that helps (dare I hope!). Because that sounds *awful.*

--Doranna
BeagleMom

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Unfortunately, Google didn't work that well for me. For instance, did not bring up all the editions of each book (large print Speed of Dark, any of the Easton Press editions, to name a few) and did not find most of the anthologies in which I have stories. Like most of us, the bibliography I keep has books by title--does not include a listing for each format. It shouldn't have to--the copyright covers the whole thing--but Google has digitized some of my books in their earliest OOP format and then claimed that the book was not commercially available. Well, no, the 1988 Sheepfarmer's Daughter with the typo right *there* was succeeded by a later edition with the typo removed...but it's the same story (and another typo was removed in the hc edition of the Deed.) If Google were to digitize and then distribute just one "not commercially available" format for each book (such as the large-print Speed of Dark) then they would be directly competing with the very commercially available other formats.

It's a FFTARD. Rude expression but very exact description familiar to military folks. "Rolling doughnut" for short.

Back to work. Still on the first page of actually turning things off and removing them but I think (hope) everything's claimed...oh...dagnabbit. Just looked up and realized I haven't done either of the Far Starts Wars anthologies yet. ::headdesk:: Why was I writing so much?????

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Auuuuurgh.

I still have to do my antho work, so for all I know I'll end up with the same joyful problems.

I also particularly resent their requirement that the book be specifically registered with the LoC by a certain date. Because guess what, some of my publishers are *behind* in doing that and didn't make the cut-off, and last year when I should have realized that, I was busy being sick and moving and trying to meet deadlines.

However, that, I figure, is their problem to figure out. I'm claiming my books.

--Doranna

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You bet your booty you claim your books. Every single one. Because the copyright IS in effect and maybe they won't pay you if they digitized w/o permission but you can ferdamsure assert your rights, which you have whether books are registered or not. And then "manage" them all and refuse everything.

I'm having to argue a lot of the "commercially available" stuff (it's on the publisher's website as in stock, you idjits!), and also saying I want it off their servers.

I'm up to page three of that, and in the process realized that their initial search on my name just happened to leave off the US editions of _Engaging the Enemy_. Ahem. Just "happen" to leave off recent US editions from Del Rey? Fish left on the bank for a day don't stink that bad.

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AURGH some more!

I fiddled with an antho just to test the waters--it comes up if I search the title/editor name, but I don't suppose they'll all be that lucky. I get squinchy claiming the books when other people have work in it and it's under an editor's name, but I can only hope the other authors will do the same.

I also don't think they're including, say, the Japanese versions of some of my categories, but I don't even have that info myself.

I'm not bothering to dispute their "commerically unavailable" crap at the moment. It's irrelevant. The rights are mine and I don't want the books displayed because I have other plans for them. *rude and crude suggestion to Google scrolls through my mind.*

--Doranna
needs to pet a Beagle and Corgi now!

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I did search by title/author (me) because I am the author if the insert I'm claiming. I was having enough trouble even with title/publisher that I didn't want to risk a slapdown for trying editor in the search, esp. since they didn't list that possibility. Just wait until you get into the older ones. Ghu forbid they decide the ISBN isn't valid. Were we in any of the same Baen anthologies? I've got a bunch of those figured out now so if you need help where we overlap, give me a holler.

I say that and then shudder....what if it's all gone the next time I open it up???

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*gasp!*

*hasty warding sign*

We were in the Chicks anthos together; I think that's probably it.

--D

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This whole business of having to use THEIR buggy interface form to claim every single edition is just insult to injury, infuriating. I understand C.J. Cherryh has done it several times over and had it disappear into cyberspace, eating several hours of work each time. Surreal requirement. You all should be able to send them, certified mail, a written record listing every title, with a copy for the court, and it be their responsibility to digitize the records, if they are so all-fired hot to digitize stuff.

Abigail

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We can send things by mail, but--we have to know all the editions, which quite frankly we usually don't. And they said "Oh, you can send a spreadsheet, thus and such format." I don't have the software. I don't want the software or to spend the time to learn it.

All we should have to do (and we really shouldn't have to do that, since it should be opt-in, not opt-out) is send them a list of titles, publishers, dates of copyright. Period. Photocopy title page of ANY edition, ANY format, and that should cover the whole.

As it is...to do one title that has only one edition is still page after page of forms. And yes, things can disappear. Details definitely disappear, even if you remember to hit SAVE for each individual item on each individual page.

E.

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What format?

Leverage your fan-base. They don't grok Sci-Fi/Fantasy Fandom. You guys have a MUCH closer relationship with your readers than other fiction writers.

Tell us, and we can collaborate on it. Seriously.

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Excel

I can download an Excel file from them of what I've done on their site, but I can't open it because (ta-DA) I don't have Excel. I'm doing that just to keep a record, every few hours, so if something goes wrong I have at least a partial record of what I've done, but...I'm going to bed now. VERY tired.

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Open Office should be able to open and edit any Excel version. And OO (http://www.openoffice.org/) is free and open source if you don't already have it. Also, Google's own Google Docs (https://docs.google.com/) can open Excel as well. But that requires having a Google account, which if you don't already have I'm not sure you would want to sign up for right now.

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For those of us who are nowhere NEAR as well known as you, this has been a very enlightening discussion. Thank you for taking the time during all the crap you're having to go through. There are lots of us (I suspect) lurking and learning.

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One thing to learn is that corporate slogans mean diddly-squat when it comes to real life.

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ASIN is some kind of amazon ID number. Does google need the 13-digit version of the ISBN? The same thing sometimes happens with the register program in the bookstore I work at, & sometimes I can get around it by using the other form of the ISBN. Of course, I'm not sure how you figure out the last digit change...

Good luck.

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thanks to the kind soul who thought of looking at B&N, I found a 13 digit one that worked.

What I'm searching for now is the ISBN of _Siege of Arista_, ed. Bill Fawcett, published by ROC (of Penguin Group) in 1991. I can't find my copy. I would also need the page numbers of my story "In Suspect Terrain."

Also if anyone has a copy of Women at War, ed. by Lois Bujold, I need the page numbers of my story "Hand to Hand" in it.

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I don't have it right now, but there's a copy of Women At War in the store that I can check tomorrow. It's hb, I think a book club edition - would the mmpb have different page numbers?

I don't know if we have Siege of Arista, but I'll check. Is it part of a series of anthologies?

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Hm, the reason you can't find The Siege of Arista on amazon is because they have it erroneously listed as The Siege of Arsita, ed. Fawcett. However, it says Arista on the cover graphic.

Its ISBN-13 is 978-0451450555. Amazon does usually have both forms of the ISBN for each book, even though it falls short sometimes.

I don't know the page numbers, although it's possible I can look up a store copy when I go in tomorrow.

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THANK YOU! That's a big help. I'll use it tomorrow morning, I'm messing up typing so badly that I have to correct every other word, tonight.

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Glad I could help. :-)

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Siege of Arista went with The Far Stars Wars and I think a third, but I was only in two of them. I have a copy of The Far Stars Wars.

Should be the same page numbers for Women at War. I don't actually CARE at this point. I hurt from the top of my head down through my hips from this, and my eyes are all blurred.

Going to bed now.

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I'm a week or so behind, & don't know if you still need this, but your story is on pages 368-384 of the hardback first edition, ISBN: 0-312-85792-6 or 9780312-857929.

Hth.

P. S. _Warrior Princesses_ ruled!

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